Thu. Aug 22nd, 2019

Pan-Africanism, #ADOS, Reparations and Good Black Capitalism(?)

It was a pleasure to join Luqman Nation for this much needed discussion.

26 thoughts on “Pan-Africanism, #ADOS, Reparations and Good Black Capitalism(?)

  1. We certainly understand the racist history of this country and we understand that this will be an extraordinarily difficult journey. There is no naiveté here.

    We understand that there are those who do not agree with our tactics. We also understand that any medium where the masses have a voice has its plusses and minuses. Let us pursue our strategy while your organizations continue to do your work. At bare minimum, can we at least leave each other alone? If you cannot, are you explicitly saying that you would rather NOT have reparations at all pursuing it this way versus your traditional practices?

    1. You need to watch the videos of your leadership and post this comment to them. I have never name called, lied or posted publicly tagging employers with an attempt (silly and foolish as it may be) to get people fired. I have even defended against name calling with those who agree with me. It is they who are without principle, honesty or even the decency to speak to someone privately who peaceably attempts a discussion while publicly lying and name calling them. They continue to make video after video spitting filth and lies and then say even worse on their social media feeds while I and others remain focused on stated political platforms. So post that on their pages if you at all mean what you claim. It’s shameful their behavior.

  2. We can have a healthy debate on those who lean toward a state-focused redress versus those who prefer an internationalist strategy of pressure and redress.

    Here’s a key critique: I acknowledge we can have a healthy discussion about what we REALLY deserve versus what any settlement would be, but the ongoing danger of Dr. Ball’s argument at the 30:00-32:00 mark is that it breaks down to little more than a Black nationalist virtue-signaling rather than any serious good-faith attempt to extract a justice claim effort to make us whole.

    The overarching desire to maintain some form of Black nationalist piety to “the traditions” of the reparations struggle continue to garner us NOTHING material other than the symbolic satisfaction of maintaining that cultural nationalist dogma.

    47 minute mark: The reason that “two YouTubers” were able to generate a functional strategy that have political function? Both Carnell and Moore recognized that modern social media was an effective medium and they also realize that the American citizen focus is a more politically salient when attempting to making a case in U.S. legislatures and courts. Another point that demands clarity: the thought leaders of this movement DO NOT ASSERT “a check” as our only means of redress.

    1. I appreciate that you at least listened. Carnell and Moore have and are behaving with a great degree of disingenuousness and Carnell with flat out lies. Theirs is merely a conservative rebranding of existing platforms and their alignment with conservative politics and anti-immigration groups requires that they be so crass and anti-historical when dealing with reparations and Pan-Africanism. I would also need more detail with reference to the entire conversation to know how you are narrowing my “dangerous” argument in light of my own much broader suggestion as to how best go about “extracting a justice claim.” Aligning with the Right as Carnell and Moore clearly are never extract anything akin to justice.

      1. These charges of “aligning with the right” appear to be solely based upon a Tweet from Ann Coulter agreeing that only the descendants of American slavery should get redress in the form of reparations and hiphop artist Talib Kweli having an emotional, profane reactionary response to that.

        Coulter wrote a 2009 book making such a statement. It was not a brand new argument of hers. Most politically astute Americans, people, know that Coulter is a polemicist and a racial arsonist, and that any endorsement from her would not be in any good-faith effort from her to do right by the ADOS community. We did not solicit her opinion or explicitly curry her favor.

        I will note that we live in America. These legislatures and courts are populated w/humans who hold a spectrum of political beliefs from radical retrograde conservative to neoliberal/borderline-progressive politics. If there could ever be any functional way that modern American Republicans could concoct a justification for reparations in their own minds, whether leaning on “party of Lincoln” history, or accepting some level of complicity for past/current atrocities…or whatever, matters less to me than the result of achieving a significant, comprehensive settlement for #ADOS individuals, families and institutions (such as endowments for HBCUs and key local NGOs that serve #ADOS/Black American communities).

        1. You are wildly mis/under-informed. 1) You can simply review their stance against Black liberation traditions and histories to see their conservatism or 2) review the anti-immigrant board Yvette sits in found by a white supremacist (PFIR) or 3) review the republican track record of their Simmons College sponsors. And 4) review their videos and social media for the vitriol and lies they target to so many Black people to their political Left.

          1. I know of the “Republican track record.” That is nobody’s deep dark secret here in Louisville.

            Over the course of decades, when leading a large congregation of Black ADOS people and being a community leader, one is going to implement different strategies of leadership. Being a witness of the deep challenges that working poor and poor ADOS have, there was a line of thinking in the late 1990s that conservative strategies might be a more useful rubric in having better outcomes for Black people in America…it wasn’t. This is why the ADOS movement has such contemporary resonance.

            Another element of importance was that Republicans were the majority party in the House in the late 1990s, and the then-Republican representative in office was on the House Appropriations Committee. This provided an opportunity for Simmons to eventually re-acquire their original property from 1879-1930 plus the means to refurbish the campus and buildings. Permanent interests in the development and sustenance of Black institutions.

            No permanent friends or enemies either.

          2. This is indicative of the reactionary politics. And no, most followers have no idea. ADOS is a backwards force and the fact that details, nuance and honesty are ignored proves it almost as much as just a simple review of reparations history.

          3. There is no pro-Black path that is wrapped in American flags and MAGA hats no matter how many old and trite “no permanent enemies…” nonsense is dragged into this.

        2. And oh, again, then go post your comments about debate and cordiality on their sites and videos and wherever. Also, why doesn’t Coulter’s support cause folks pause if they aren’t so aligned?

    2. And oh, it is Carnell and Moore who refuse debate while continuing to lie and make ridiculous claims about a variety of people in their videos demonstrating no interest in nuance, detail or honesty.

  3. “One of the strategies of racism is to confuse the victims into believing all their victories should be awarded to the oppressor. In the U.S.A., when Africans verbally attack capitalism they are told that they must be thankful to the U.S. capitalist system, which gives them the right to free speech. In this one sentence, centuries of African struggle are obliterated. When Africans came to the U.S.A. speaking only African languages, their tongues would be cut out and held up as an example to others. Did the system change on its own or did Africans force the change, through consistent, uncompromising struggle”? [ Afterword, 1992 by Kwame Ture; Black Power, The Politics of Liberation ].

    Thus, consistency of struggle should also be applied on the issue of seeking reparations for the crime against humanity known as slavery U,S.A. If reparations are ever to become a reality, it will definitely not be a victory awarded by the U.S.A. settler- colony oppressor, whose impertinence and arrogance constantly advise African Americans to concern themselves not with the present time. As Randall Robinson, author of The ‘Debt: What America owes to Blacks’ [ 2002 ] ; has astutely noted— “Every human being has an innate need to remember one’s self before one’s own time”‘.

  4. Dr. Ball At 12 minutes 30 seconds you call it Betina’s petition did you mean Belinda’s Petition. The comment by Tutu is very useful.The idea that it has historically meant “land” is very pointed.

  5. Stop crying about what you got pandering Democratic Presidential candidates to speak on. The current Republican President doesn’t see you or acknowledge you and reparations is not some new thing that came out when a few people decided that it was important that a check be cut for them. My question is how many of the trolls online have even read the agenda provided by the creators of the hashtag ADOS and have they done a comparative analysis between what is present in that agenda and past movements regarding reparations.

    It would make better sense to hone in on what are the similarities with other organizations than to go to war with everyone. It is a lack of political savvy, something that is necessary to get legislation passed in Washington, which is where you ultimately want your request to go.

  6. I think that instead of responding to random ADOS people, IwoI wo rather hear Ball and Luqman address what cane directly out of of the mouth of Yvette and Antonio.

  7. Dr. Ball apparently Ms. Carnell has a thing for shirts. She said this about Mark Thompson on the Joy Reid show: BreakingBrown (Yvette Carnell)

    @BreakingBrown
    Mar 16
    More
    1.@ministter U wouldn’t be up early in an ugly canary yellow shirt talking about reparations if it weren’t for #ADOS. We put #Reparations2020 on the presidential platform, not you. U don’t deserve a platform to speak. About anything. U haven’t achieved anything. U failed.

    1. I think it would have been better for Dr. Ball Luqman to ddress what it is exactly that Carnell and Moore said and not some random ADOS.

        1. you didn’t . Luqmans’s sorry excuse for speaking her mind and acknowledging only 1 error.Speaks loudly.
          perhaps a read of N’CoBRA’s own best practices would serve you both.

          1. Do these best practices include vague, unspecific, empty criticism? Which page discusses wild contradictions? And which part of those best practices covers disrespectful and again unspecific typed jabs at hosts that both aren’t appropriate and don’t detail an issue and offer and explanatory response of any kind and is really just itself a “sorry excuse” for a comment (and probably should just be deleted)?

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